Darling Angel

[Vitaly]

I am new to the marine hooby and read your article about Angelfish with great interest. I was hoping you could comment on the compatibility of Pygmy Angelfish and Dwarf Angelfish in the same tank.

I have been told that keeping one member from each "group" is acceptable in a tank.

Thus, in your opinion, would a Pygmy Cherub (C. argi) and a Dwarf Coral Beauty (C. bispinosus) be suitable tankmates in a fish only system?

Thank you for your time.

 

[Angel*Fish]

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I certainly can't answer this as well as Henry Shultz...but I will try to help you until you get a reply from him.

In your profile, it says your tank is 30g - Some would say that you could have a pair of cherubs in a tank that size - but IMO that's too small. I think most agree that 55g is the minimum size for most of the 4 inch angels.
To mix Centropyge species, the bigger the tank, the better.

A Cherub and a CB can coexist. They should be added at the same time preferably while they are young fish. If you allow one to become established, it is likely it will not accept the new fish. An established cherub can chase a new CB twice its size right out of the tank, literally.

I'm not sure what you mean by each group - if you mean species, it's not all that simple - . If you mean fishes of different genus, it's usually much much easier (except for certain of the larger angels that are very belligerent in general)

I highly recommend you read as much as you can find on the subject before attempting.

One more thing - when you say fish only tank - do you mean with live rock? Dwarf angels, IMO, should not be housed in sterile tanks without lots of rockwork. They need to graze the rocks in your tank and they need to be near hiding places in the rocks at all times or they will not "feel safe".

HTH

 

[Vitaly]

Thank you for your reply.

I have done a lot of reading on the marine/reef subject, but there are some subtler points that tend to not be entirely clear...and sometimes I encounter contradictions.

Regarding the "groups", I have read that it is okay to keep one angel, one dwarf angel and one pygmy angel in a tank together; provided there is enough room. Supposedly, they will not show aggression towards each other. However, keeping two pygmies or two dwarfs would be problematic as their territories would overlap.

I have introduced a young Cherub Angel and Coral Beauty (2 days later) into my 30 gallon tank (about 45-50 lbs of live rock). As you stated, the Cherub Angel does continually graze on the algae growing on the love rock…and she appears to be happy.

Some recent images: http://www.life.uiuc.edu/~stepensk/album/Marine-August-2006
*NOTE: the black spots on the Cherub Angel are a camera effect and not observe via the naked eye.

However, the Coral Beauty does briefly chase (not nipping) the Cherub Angel. The Cherub does not seem overly bothered and re-emerges from hiding shortly after to continue grazing. I have not observed any signs of trauma or stress to the little Cherub, however, I am concerned about long term affects.

I have re-arranged the live rock twice and the chasing has continued, during the past week.

In your opinion will this chasing subside or is the Coral Beauty I own just too temperamental and overbearing to be in the 30 gallon tank with my Cherub Angel?

At what point do I decide to return the Coral Beauty?

Thank you for your assistance!

Vitaly

 

[Angel*Fish]

Pretty fish thanks for the pics

Ok...first of all - generally speaking cherubs and CB's are both considered dwarf or pygmy angels. I am not familiar with the grouping you're refering to, but that does not mean it doesn't exist. I have heard of those smaller angels, C. argi (cherub), C.acanthops (flameback) and a couple of others discussed as being part of the "argi complex" - but as a group they are not thought of as fishes which get along with any others in the same genus or other fish in general for that matter

Centropyge is the genus shared by both C.argi (cherub) and C. bispinosus (CB).

Within the Centropyge genus there are varying personality/aggression tendencies, but as far as I know there is not a source to go to which covers this comprehensively.

As for tank size - if a source says CB's are ok in a 30g, it probably assumes this is the only Centropyge in the tank. Personally I feel a little guilty for keeping mine in a 100g - especially after I visit a LFS here with a 40,000g tank and watch the flame angel that lives in it

The Cherub does not seem overly bothered and re-emerges from hiding shortly after to continue grazing.

I'd say that as long as the cherub is not stressed by the CB - it's ok. As long as your cherub is also swimming all over the entire tank and not always running to hide from the CB. You should see a relatively leisurely swimming pace not a hurried "Oh gosh - I'm gonna dart out here and steal a frantic bite before he sees me" attitude.

Just keep watch and observe which direction the aggression seems to be headed. Since you don't mind rearranging your tank - one option is to confine the aggressor to an eggcrate contained area for a couple of weeks - then let him out and see if he is more tolerant.

It's hard to tell you exactly when to give up - If the fish is cowering in corner of the tank, he should be rescued ASAP. I'd think you'd know after a week (?) if things are going to let up and it's time to try containment. The CB can also be removed to another tank for a couple of weeks and then put back in . But I like the eggcrate way better for various reasons.

 

[Vitaly]

Marie,

Thank you for the explanation. I thought that the Cherub was considered a "Pygmy" and the Coral was a "Dwarf"...and therefore would be tolerant.

I will do as you suggest and just watch the tank. They each swim the breadth of the tank...the Coral towards the top and the Cherub along the bottom. They often pass each other without conflict. But occasionally there is a short chase.

Well I will just watch...and if the Cherub begins to spend less time swimming and if she stops grazing I will, sadly, have to remove the Beauty.

Regarding the volume...at 30 gallons I am not planning to have more than these four fish (Clown, Wrasse, Cherub Angel, Coral Angel). They are all on the smaller side at the moment and I hope to gain some experience with marine fish...and then transition into a large reef tank (120+ volume) where they can be moved into for continued growth.

Hopefully with the information on this board and advice from members such as yourself I can get to the stage easily and without losing any fish

Thanks again...

Vitaly

 

[Angel*Fish]

They often pass each other without conflict. But occasionally there is a short chase.

That is a good sign

Your plan to move up to the 120g will serve these fish well as they grow -

And as I'm sure you know from your many years of FW experience, the 120g tank will in many ways be much less of a challenge than this 30g

And you are very welcome -

 

[Vitaly]

Marie,

Just thought that I would let you know that in the week since my last post there was an amazing change in behavior. The cherub angel now swims about the entire tank freely. There was has been absolutely no pecking/chasing between any of the 4 fish during the past week.

Interestingly, the cherub angel races against the coral beauty (the former aggressor) to eat food that I add to the tank.

So it seems that all is well and willl hopefully continue to be so.

Thanks again for your comments and feedback. I probably would have given up and returned the coral beauty to the store long ago, had it not been for your help.

Cheers...

Vitaly

 

[Angel*Fish]

That's really great to hear! Good luck on your continued success.