Hawaii Supreme Court Ruling Halts Aquarium Fishery
- Thread starter ThRoewer
- Start date
Papermonkeys
New member
As someone who grew up in Hawaii, I saw a definite decline in fish that I would see while out in the ocean from when I was younger to now. By all means I don't think aquariums are to blame though. I know tons of people who go out there over fish (spearfishing) just for fun which ain't cool. Kinda related side story: The manager at my LFS was telling me a story about how his supplier had 2500+ yellow tangs and he said that they should put some back (joking but not joking hah) and the guy just laughed.
ThRoewer
New member
I don't think that responsibly collecting (= no cyanide and only taking smaller specimen while leaving the adult breeders behind) for the aquarium trade is generally to blame for declining numbers of fish.
These days the preferred specimen are smaller juveniles or subadults anyway and not the larger breeding individuals that were often collected in the past. Most Fish you find these days in stores are not much older than a year and if there is any impact of removing them from the wild it is more towards predators feeding on them then the collected species.
Unfortunately, the larger specimen are these days more and more targeted for human consumption.
Power boats, jet-skis and tourism in general do more harm.
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These days the preferred specimen are smaller juveniles or subadults anyway and not the larger breeding individuals that were often collected in the past. Most Fish you find these days in stores are not much older than a year and if there is any impact of removing them from the wild it is more towards predators feeding on them then the collected species.
Unfortunately, the larger specimen are these days more and more targeted for human consumption.
Power boats, jet-skis and tourism in general do more harm.
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Alexraptor
New member
Wait... people actually eat Yellow Tangs? 
I mean I can see a south American Oscar on a dinner plate, but tangs just seem like more bones than meat.
I mean I can see a south American Oscar on a dinner plate, but tangs just seem like more bones than meat.
ThRoewer
New member
Wait... people actually eat Yellow Tangs?
I mean I can see a south American Oscar on a dinner plate, but tangs just seem like more bones than meat.
Probably not Yellow Tangs as they stay rather small, but large angels, wrasses and even tangs land quite regularly on the grill. If you visit fish markets in the countries where our fish come from you will find many beloved friends up for sale as dinner:
Caribbean, St. Lucia, Tropical Fish For Sale On The Market.
http://eddie-coral-adventures.blogspot.com/2008/02/bali-fish-market.html
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Papermonkeys
New member
Ha, ya sorry I was a little confusing in my post. I know people don't really eat yellow tangs or most other fish we like to keep. But I just meant in general people overfish there. I think parrot fish is commonly consumed even though there are tons of better tasting fish (I wouldn't know I don't eat any type of seafood haha)
chgoblknazn
New member
Probably not Yellow Tangs as they stay rather small, but large angels, wrasses and even tangs land quite regularly on the grill. If you visit fish markets in the countries where our fish come from you will find many beloved friends up for sale as dinner:
Caribbean, St. Lucia, Tropical Fish For Sale On The Market.
http://eddie-coral-adventures.blogspot.com/2008/02/bali-fish-market.html
I had parrotfish while I was vacationing in Fiji. The market was full of adult sized fish for our host to pick from. They were delicious!!
This has nothing to do with conservation. Hawaii is one of the most studied fisheries. None of these fish are in any danger of being threatened.
If you look into who pushed for this, you will find people who don't think fish should be kept in glass boxes. The Humane Society, For The Fishes, Center for Biological Diversity, etc.
If you look into who pushed for this, you will find people who don't think fish should be kept in glass boxes. The Humane Society, For The Fishes, Center for Biological Diversity, etc.
ThRoewer
New member
Papermonkeys
New member
Lol ThRoewer. And ya flsalty the governor, already planning to veto I'm pretty sure
Punchanello
Member
People in the hobby can argue all they want that the Hawaiian (or any other) fisheries in question are protected, sustainable and well regulated and that the industry is a victim of environmentalist groups. It may be true, but frankly nobody is listening. If they are listening then they're thinking, "well, they would say that wouldn't they? They have a financial or recreational interest".
Is collection, transport and captivity the best outcome for the individual fish? No, it's not in all likelihood. To defend the industry on the grounds that it is sustainable, that aquarists are the ultimate environmentalist and stewards when tangs are sold for the cost of meal, is an unwinnable argument.
The only way to defend the hobby is also the only way to ensure its environmental sustainability and future. We need to "offset" the impact of what we do by demonstrating rigorous, pro-active self-regulation (evidence based traceability, standards, codes of conduct), invest and participate in grass roots environmental stewardship, invest in philanthropic support of scientific research and spend money on demonstrating the educational, environmental, ecological and biological research and "good-will" benefits of private and public aquariums. The key is not to be defensive or rail against greenies because you can't win when they hold the moral high ground and because for the most part they aren't nefarious fun wreckers, and share the same concern for the species we do.
Is collection, transport and captivity the best outcome for the individual fish? No, it's not in all likelihood. To defend the industry on the grounds that it is sustainable, that aquarists are the ultimate environmentalist and stewards when tangs are sold for the cost of meal, is an unwinnable argument.
The only way to defend the hobby is also the only way to ensure its environmental sustainability and future. We need to "offset" the impact of what we do by demonstrating rigorous, pro-active self-regulation (evidence based traceability, standards, codes of conduct), invest and participate in grass roots environmental stewardship, invest in philanthropic support of scientific research and spend money on demonstrating the educational, environmental, ecological and biological research and "good-will" benefits of private and public aquariums. The key is not to be defensive or rail against greenies because you can't win when they hold the moral high ground and because for the most part they aren't nefarious fun wreckers, and share the same concern for the species we do.
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Except for one thing. I am a greenie. I'm just not an idiot. While I agree that more should be done to educate the public, those people with the "moral high ground" are lying. So not only do we need to further education, we need to fight propaganda. The only way to fight propaganda is to call them out on it.
MurphyLong
HMFIC
The Blue Hippo Tang is commonly used as bait... Just thought I'd throw that out there... No pun intended.
d0ughb0y
Active member
my local supermarket sells freshly caught parrot fish.
"labahita" is very common, translated as surgeon fish, aka tangs.
Look to "Ducks Unlimited." A conservation group that is run by duck hunters. The suggested approach has worked quite well. Great idea!
Punchanello
Member
I'm not suggesting that the industry should be disingenuous or try to pull the wool over anyone's eyes. Just stop pretending that trade is without harm and get involved in conservation if it is serious about sustainability.
I live on Maui on the West side. 1968 was my first trip here and I've seen lots of change both in the water and land. There are many things taking our fish from us. I would say collecting would be the smallest. Endless building that silts the water, spear fishing just for the sport of it, netting and many other things. Spear fishing is one of the worst because it's so unfair and easy. Some folks to it at night, no sport at all. The guys and gals that do it want the biggest fish, those are the ones that reproduce of course. I've seen net fisherman dump long nose butterfly fish in the rocks instead of back in the water. Time shares and hotels are killing the reefs with the fertilizers that make the beautiful gardens. It seeps through the porous rock into the reef. I check the areas that I dive every month or so. Some areas have sky high nitrates. I would never put that water in my own aquarium. As for me? I only collect young fish for my aquarium. If they don't settle down in three or four days I take them back where I collected them. If they grow to large for my tank, they go back. I have only lost one fish in the six years I have been keeping a salt water aquarium. Just my thoughts on the subject. Don
Double standards - and another nanny state. I was diving there a few months back and the dive masters collected for their home use. One went so far to collect it at depth, filled his emergency sausage has a lift bag, and had the boat collect it. Now mind you we are at around 90 or so feet down and we all did our safety stops accordingly. Fish - not so much. I boarded the boat, looked in the bucket, and saw the little fella on its side. All I could say is man, you guys need to stop doing that crap and release it. At least it will have a chance.
Filed a complaint on my way out and that is it. Maui and the rest of the islands are beautiful but your politicians and nanny laws are going to ruin it. Much like what is happening to us in California. Don't get me wrong - this hobby is one that can be self sustaining in most cases. Especially with corals and some of the easier breading fish. Manage your agriculture, manage the water run off, manage your waste, and above all manage the tourists and their sunscreen.
I did see more fish and coral this time around compared to previous visits which honestly surprised me. Something is going right. But I don't think it is restricting the collection for home use. Then again I very well could be ignorant of the subject.
Edit: I will also add that I've had parrot fish among others. I lived in Okinawa Japan for four years and did lots of spear fishing with the locals. Same while in the Philippians. Tangs would be a no. Not enough meat on them.
Filed a complaint on my way out and that is it. Maui and the rest of the islands are beautiful but your politicians and nanny laws are going to ruin it. Much like what is happening to us in California. Don't get me wrong - this hobby is one that can be self sustaining in most cases. Especially with corals and some of the easier breading fish. Manage your agriculture, manage the water run off, manage your waste, and above all manage the tourists and their sunscreen.
I did see more fish and coral this time around compared to previous visits which honestly surprised me. Something is going right. But I don't think it is restricting the collection for home use. Then again I very well could be ignorant of the subject.
Edit: I will also add that I've had parrot fish among others. I lived in Okinawa Japan for four years and did lots of spear fishing with the locals. Same while in the Philippians. Tangs would be a no. Not enough meat on them.
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