Vermetid Snail ELIMINATION - In tank Treatments
- Thread starter pisanoal
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NeverlosT
A bit fishy
I wonder if any predator will get after mine, they are largely growing IN established SPS colonies. I wonder if a snail would cross healthy SPS tissue to pursue a vermetid. Here's to hoping!
ThRoewer, I wonder if contacting a large importer like route66 or liveaquaria or someone like that with the "business proposal" of getting them to import the animals would work?
ThRoewer, I wonder if contacting a large importer like route66 or liveaquaria or someone like that with the "business proposal" of getting them to import the animals would work?
Wally.B
Active member
I have a question. To ID if I have vermitids.
I have caught a vermit snail two times. Casting it's web gave away the location.
I found the mound and carved it out.
I have never seen any more since that time (the Mound or tubes).
But I recently noticed this.
Every time I used a powerhead to blow off detritus off my rocks, the whole tank goes particulate crazy.
Briefly afterwards, everywhere I look. All rocks show a web threads everywhere.
These thread I can't see till I make up a dust storm and then the webs show up catching the dust.
Does that mean I have vermitids everywhere, and I simply can't see their web due to a high flow tank and no particulates?
And are there vermitids that don't make mounds or tube?
I have caught a vermit snail two times. Casting it's web gave away the location.
I found the mound and carved it out.
I have never seen any more since that time (the Mound or tubes).
But I recently noticed this.
Every time I used a powerhead to blow off detritus off my rocks, the whole tank goes particulate crazy.
Briefly afterwards, everywhere I look. All rocks show a web threads everywhere.
These thread I can't see till I make up a dust storm and then the webs show up catching the dust.
Does that mean I have vermitids everywhere, and I simply can't see their web due to a high flow tank and no particulates?
And are there vermitids that don't make mounds or tube?
coralcruze2020
Member
vermatid snail just sliced one of my prized zoas in half... I hate these things. tagging along.
ketchup318
New member
test
ketchup318
New member
Hi All
I've been following this thread for the past few years ever since I got my first noticeable cluster of vermetid snails. Like most of you, I've searched far and wide all over the the internet and haven't really found much of a cure for these things. Supposedly there's a natural snail that does eat these things, but it isn't available in our hobby. As for what's in our hobby, there's nothing that is guaranteed; bumblebee snails is probably your closest bet; YMMV. I hear urchins work, but it may be just cause they indescriminately mow a path and the vermetid snails are in the way.
As for chemicals I've tried, you've go fluconazole (doesn't work), coral snow from KZ (doesn't work), and others, that i haven't tried. I've tried boosting and lowering salinity, magnesium.
The only sure proof way to killing these buggers is physically jabbing, boiling, lasering, or crushing them.
I am at a point where it's either tear down the tank or nuke the tank with CQ, which is supposed to work, but not reef safe. Tearing down is no guarantee unless you can get at all the parts with bleach, or leave it fallow for months on end.
So I'm using option 1, Chloroquine as ReefKeeper64 mentioned on pages 2 & 3 of this thread. Apparently this kinda works, tkeracer619 & rc1626 tried it and it initially killed them all, but somehow years later came back. Unlike them though, I can't remove corals or snails or anything else as it's everywhere.
So, the approach I'm taking is I'm going to try taking the slow and drawing it out for as long as possible. I'm going to try dosing at 10% weekly and seeing the results. Hopefully I can find a dosage where it won't completely wipe out the corals/inhabitants but will kill the snails.
So, here are my initial pictures.
1) New Life Spectrum Ick Shield Powder
2) Definitely has Chloroquinol
3) Initial reef picture (Duncan was irratated by my shrimp walking over it.)
4) One of my 2 Trochus snails, you can see vermetids on it
5) My larger trochus, lots of vermetids
I've been following this thread for the past few years ever since I got my first noticeable cluster of vermetid snails. Like most of you, I've searched far and wide all over the the internet and haven't really found much of a cure for these things. Supposedly there's a natural snail that does eat these things, but it isn't available in our hobby. As for what's in our hobby, there's nothing that is guaranteed; bumblebee snails is probably your closest bet; YMMV. I hear urchins work, but it may be just cause they indescriminately mow a path and the vermetid snails are in the way.
As for chemicals I've tried, you've go fluconazole (doesn't work), coral snow from KZ (doesn't work), and others, that i haven't tried. I've tried boosting and lowering salinity, magnesium.
The only sure proof way to killing these buggers is physically jabbing, boiling, lasering, or crushing them.
I am at a point where it's either tear down the tank or nuke the tank with CQ, which is supposed to work, but not reef safe. Tearing down is no guarantee unless you can get at all the parts with bleach, or leave it fallow for months on end.
So I'm using option 1, Chloroquine as ReefKeeper64 mentioned on pages 2 & 3 of this thread. Apparently this kinda works, tkeracer619 & rc1626 tried it and it initially killed them all, but somehow years later came back. Unlike them though, I can't remove corals or snails or anything else as it's everywhere.
So, the approach I'm taking is I'm going to try taking the slow and drawing it out for as long as possible. I'm going to try dosing at 10% weekly and seeing the results. Hopefully I can find a dosage where it won't completely wipe out the corals/inhabitants but will kill the snails.
So, here are my initial pictures.
1) New Life Spectrum Ick Shield Powder
2) Definitely has Chloroquinol
3) Initial reef picture (Duncan was irratated by my shrimp walking over it.)
4) One of my 2 Trochus snails, you can see vermetids on it
5) My larger trochus, lots of vermetids
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Good luck with your eradication.
I want to try the laser method. I need to get one for this purpose and to get rid of a few mushrooms before they spread.
I want to try the laser method. I need to get one for this purpose and to get rid of a few mushrooms before they spread.
ketchup318
New member
Forgot to add that my previous post was on Saturday the 23rd of May. Per Reefkeeper64's recommendation, I was going to take it slow and use 10% of the recommended dose weekly.
New Life Spectrum gives the following formula; Water Volume (gal) * 8ppm / 266 = grams. That meant for my 55G with sump (65total), about 1.95gr * 10% = 0.2grams, which is about 1/3 of the included spoon. So in it went.
New Life Spectrum gives the following formula; Water Volume (gal) * 8ppm / 266 = grams. That meant for my 55G with sump (65total), about 1.95gr * 10% = 0.2grams, which is about 1/3 of the included spoon. So in it went.
ketchup318
New member
6 days later, on Friday, May the 29th, I took this picture. There wasn't a real change to the corals. Probably cause the dose was low enough and was tolerable to the inhabitants. There's still a lot of webs after feeding and also my pistol/yellow watchman goby kick up a lot of sand when they clean house.
Again, another 1/3 spoonful (0.2g) went into the tank
Again, another 1/3 spoonful (0.2g) went into the tank
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ketchup318
New member
Finally, yesterday (Sunday June 7) I took another set of pictures. Here's my observations for the past 2 weeks... please excuse my poor ID of corals. I am really bad with names.
1) The zoas never really fully bloomed again, I had 2 sets, a neon green set and a red set on the left. I get about 1/2 of them opened and 1/2 closed.
2) I have a red/purple blasto on the left top, it's been kinda receded ever since the 2nd application. It's kind of stable, I wouldn't say it's gotten worst, but it's definitely not happy
3) the mushroom in the middle has gone for a vibrant orange to a dull pink. may not be apparent in the picture, but is very noticeable in person
4) the duncan seems to be stuck in this state since the second dose. I haven't seen any extension in a long while.
5) the frogspawn on the top right is the most affected so far. It's receded back considerably.
6)The blasto on the bottom right doesn't seem to mind, unlike the other one
7) the blue sympodium on the bottom right island used to grow like a weed. Doesn't seem too affected, but isn't spreading at all now.
8) the monti in the bottom middle doesn't seem to be affecte much either.
As it is right now, after 2 doses (20% of vendor recommended level), corals are affected, fish and 2 shrimps don't seem to notice. My CUC is ok (hermits and various snails).
Now for the vermetids, the mucous webs are dramatically reduced, and from my biased point of view, it does seem like the infestation has not gotten worse. I can't really tell which tubes are occupied and which are not. Unfortunately, as I was doing my weekly cleaning and smashing of tubes, most of the ones I crushed, I did notice critters slithering back into the base. So while they may not be feeding as much, they are definitely alive, holed up in their tubes.
I have been really hesitant to continue with the treatment. I know my corals are definitely not happy. I know they are living creatures and I'm having a hard time providing a treatment that harms them. But like my torchus snails, they are covered in these bastards. There's no way to isolate the corals from the rockwork, or from the vermetids.
So after much internal debate, I have decided to go on with one more treatment. Maybe I can halt the infestation and it'll give me some time to manually remove them. I'll just have to wait and see.
I'm wondering what you all think.
1) The zoas never really fully bloomed again, I had 2 sets, a neon green set and a red set on the left. I get about 1/2 of them opened and 1/2 closed.
2) I have a red/purple blasto on the left top, it's been kinda receded ever since the 2nd application. It's kind of stable, I wouldn't say it's gotten worst, but it's definitely not happy
3) the mushroom in the middle has gone for a vibrant orange to a dull pink. may not be apparent in the picture, but is very noticeable in person
4) the duncan seems to be stuck in this state since the second dose. I haven't seen any extension in a long while.
5) the frogspawn on the top right is the most affected so far. It's receded back considerably.
6)The blasto on the bottom right doesn't seem to mind, unlike the other one
7) the blue sympodium on the bottom right island used to grow like a weed. Doesn't seem too affected, but isn't spreading at all now.
8) the monti in the bottom middle doesn't seem to be affecte much either.
As it is right now, after 2 doses (20% of vendor recommended level), corals are affected, fish and 2 shrimps don't seem to notice. My CUC is ok (hermits and various snails).
Now for the vermetids, the mucous webs are dramatically reduced, and from my biased point of view, it does seem like the infestation has not gotten worse. I can't really tell which tubes are occupied and which are not. Unfortunately, as I was doing my weekly cleaning and smashing of tubes, most of the ones I crushed, I did notice critters slithering back into the base. So while they may not be feeding as much, they are definitely alive, holed up in their tubes.
I have been really hesitant to continue with the treatment. I know my corals are definitely not happy. I know they are living creatures and I'm having a hard time providing a treatment that harms them. But like my torchus snails, they are covered in these bastards. There's no way to isolate the corals from the rockwork, or from the vermetids.
So after much internal debate, I have decided to go on with one more treatment. Maybe I can halt the infestation and it'll give me some time to manually remove them. I'll just have to wait and see.
I'm wondering what you all think.
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Any luck sourcing these?
Hi all,
just a quick update, I did dose the Ick shield, my advise to this thread is treat it as the nuke option.
I dosed extremely slowly, it worked for me, make sure that you have carbon turned off as at the reduced levels you may not see any effect.
I removed all corals and put in quarantine, I have not returned any corals or snails to the tank in over 9 months. I am determined not to have a repeat.
What I have noticed in Quarantine, is that it has taken this long to eliminate the vermin from the corals that were put in quarantine. Basic 76 days repeated now on run no3. the previous 3 rounds showed signs of them appearing on coral bases, so the corals were removed and then cleaned up. Placed back in quarantine and repeat cycle.
In addition, unless you find a snail that can crawl through you plumbing the only way to eradicate these pests is tear down + bleach or Ick shield, IMHO.
If you have these - check your overflows, they will be everywhere including sump.
So a snail, while might be the option you'll like the most, however it can't eradicate because these pests grow everywhere.
If you go to the trouble of nuking, ensure you take your time putting corals back in these the seem to go undetectable for at least 2 -3 months and then appear.
Any wet animal now has to endure 2 months in quarantine before getting to the main display. I'm not crazy about the quarantining, but its better than having these guys back in the main tank.
Hope this helps someone out there with this
just a quick update, I did dose the Ick shield, my advise to this thread is treat it as the nuke option.
I dosed extremely slowly, it worked for me, make sure that you have carbon turned off as at the reduced levels you may not see any effect.
I removed all corals and put in quarantine, I have not returned any corals or snails to the tank in over 9 months. I am determined not to have a repeat.
What I have noticed in Quarantine, is that it has taken this long to eliminate the vermin from the corals that were put in quarantine. Basic 76 days repeated now on run no3. the previous 3 rounds showed signs of them appearing on coral bases, so the corals were removed and then cleaned up. Placed back in quarantine and repeat cycle.
In addition, unless you find a snail that can crawl through you plumbing the only way to eradicate these pests is tear down + bleach or Ick shield, IMHO.
If you have these - check your overflows, they will be everywhere including sump.
So a snail, while might be the option you'll like the most, however it can't eradicate because these pests grow everywhere.
If you go to the trouble of nuking, ensure you take your time putting corals back in these the seem to go undetectable for at least 2 -3 months and then appear.
Any wet animal now has to endure 2 months in quarantine before getting to the main display. I'm not crazy about the quarantining, but its better than having these guys back in the main tank.
Hope this helps someone out there with this
ThRoewer
New member
ThRoewer
New member
Killing everything on the rocks isn't an option to me.
It would be enough for me if I could find a predator that takes out the small ones and the babies of the larger ones. That way you can break the cycle and keep at least the display clear of them.
I've never found the larger ones in overflows and pipes, only the far less annoying smaller species.
Ultimately the spread starts at infested LFS systems and the stores should be doing more to stop the spread of this pest. And so far I have not seen much action there.
Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
ketchup318
New member
Just wanted to post another update on my slow and gradual implementation of Chloroquinol.
I've had this crazy explosion of hair algae in the tank. I'm not sure where it's coming from. My feeding habits haven't changed. All my fish and 2 shrimp are accounted for. My snails still seem to be grazing. But it got really outta control this past week. Originally I wanted to avoid changing the water, but I had to pull some of the algae out.
So because of that, I changed about 25% of the water. In doing so, I diluted the concentration of CQ. I'm not good at math, so I don't know my current concentration. I put another 10% dose back in just to re-balance it... hopefully.
Now with respect to the vermetid snails, I can't recall seeing an mucus webs. This was a welcome surprise cause I was stirring up the sand quite a bit to get at the algae.
I'm not sure what dead vermetids look like, but the ones on my snails all have white tips, as seen in the picture. Also poking around my corals, it seems like most of the ones that were attached to the base were easily removed. So far, the majority of snails on the corals are gone. Still have quite a bit on the rock work, but it's diminishing. So maybe I'm finally getting the upper hand.
The corals seemed to have stabilized somewhat. The frogspawn seems to have been hit hardest in the last couple weeks, but it's still hang in there. The mushroom, while much paler in color, hasn't receded any. I have noticed most all the coralline algae is gone.
Hopefully this is helpful for anyone thinking about trying this...
I've had this crazy explosion of hair algae in the tank. I'm not sure where it's coming from. My feeding habits haven't changed. All my fish and 2 shrimp are accounted for. My snails still seem to be grazing. But it got really outta control this past week. Originally I wanted to avoid changing the water, but I had to pull some of the algae out.
So because of that, I changed about 25% of the water. In doing so, I diluted the concentration of CQ. I'm not good at math, so I don't know my current concentration. I put another 10% dose back in just to re-balance it... hopefully.
Now with respect to the vermetid snails, I can't recall seeing an mucus webs. This was a welcome surprise cause I was stirring up the sand quite a bit to get at the algae.
I'm not sure what dead vermetids look like, but the ones on my snails all have white tips, as seen in the picture. Also poking around my corals, it seems like most of the ones that were attached to the base were easily removed. So far, the majority of snails on the corals are gone. Still have quite a bit on the rock work, but it's diminishing. So maybe I'm finally getting the upper hand.
The corals seemed to have stabilized somewhat. The frogspawn seems to have been hit hardest in the last couple weeks, but it's still hang in there. The mushroom, while much paler in color, hasn't receded any. I have noticed most all the coralline algae is gone.
Hopefully this is helpful for anyone thinking about trying this...
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Khazmodain
Member
Has anyone tried lacing food with chloroquine phosphate? Wondering if they ate it if it would get them, then you don't have to go full scale nuclear.
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